Oral+History+Interview

INTERVIEW QUESTIONS

An evening with Lindy Camarda, my Great-Aunt May 30, 2010

What do you remember about the summer of 1967 in Milwaukee? What was the atmosphere like? Where did you live during that time? What was it like, for you, living on the East Side so close to what was happening? What are, or were, your thoughts on what Father Groppi was doing? Did it affect you personally? What happened and how did you feel about it? As a Catholic, how did you feel about the Church’s reactions to the situation? You were a History teacher during this time. How did you handle the events with your students? What were their feelings?

First of all, Lindy, thank you for taking the time to talk with me today. I have a few questions to ask you about your thoughts, feelings, and memories about Milwaukee during the 1967 Race Riots and Father James Groppi’s Open-Housing marches during that time.

Matt: What do you remember about the summer of 1967 in Milwaukee? What was the atmosphere like?

Lindy: It was a very tense, divided period in Milwaukee. Extremely tense. I remember it as a highly emotional time. The riots were frightening. Emotions had come to a head and spilled out into the streets. There were three or four deaths and many arrests. I recall the Mayer, Mayer Maier at the time, asking for help from the Governor. The National Guard was called out and Mayer Maier called for a curfew in the city. The Mayer became sort of a hero for calming the tensions. His call for a curfew worked. Cooler heads prevailed.

During that summer, I was going for my Masters at Marquette University. My exams were scheduled during the outbreak of the riots. I remember getting to the school and being turned away because the exams had been canceled. Marquette had cancelled classes and exams. It wasn’t easy getting around the city at that time because of the curfew.

After the riots, Father Groppi began his marches for open-housing. Emotions ran high again. The marches were targeted at the South Side of the city. People living there felt that their property values were being threatened if open-housing was allowed. It was a working class neighborhood where the people had scrimped and saved all of their lives to have what they did. In some cases, these were people who owned the first home in their families. They were very protective, and very conservative. These people were not going to allow African Americans to enter their neighborhood. I remember their reactions when the marchers came over the 16th Street Viaduct. It was an ugly scene - bottles and rocks were flying. People were yelling and chanting awful, hateful things. Father Groppi’s marchers were non-violent. I remember that they were not the ones initiating the clashes. All they wanted to do was make their point - bring it to everyone’s attention.

Matt: Where were you living during this time?

Lindy: I was living on the lower East Side, on Newhall Street, close to North Avenue.

Matt: What was it like for you living on the East Side, so close to what was happening?

Lindy: During the riots, we heard sirens day and night. Police cars were racing west on North Avenue constantly. I remember, your mom was in Milwaukee visiting for a few weeks during the time of the riots. We would be playing cards late into the evening and, you could hear the sirens and smell an acrid odor coming through the windows facing west. I’m not sure if it was remnants of tear gas, or gun powder or just the smell from what was burning. The violence really didn’t cross into our neighborhood, though. The dividing line was the river and the water retention facility and park where North Avenue rounded to the west. Nothing came east of there, but it was close enough that we could hear the noises and see the police heading west and ambulances heading east to St. Mary’s Hospital.

Our neighborhood wasn’t affected by the Open-Housing Marches, either. Father Groppi’s marches headed south, not east. Also, the atmosphere on the East Side didn’t feel the same as it did on the South Side. People on the lower East Side didn’t feel threatened by what was happening. In fact, people were very sympathetic and supportive of the cause. The wealthy population, on the upper East Side didn’t feel threatened because African Americans weren’t moving into their neighborhood. The marches didn’t affect them and wasn’t going to change their property values in a negative way.

Matt: What are, or were, your thoughts on what Father Groppi was doing?

Lindy: I was in total support of what Father Groppi was doing. As Americans we should be able to live where ever we choose regardless of race, color or religion. His intentions were to bring attention to injustice and prejudice in a non-violent way. He led peaceful marches that turned violent because of the bigotry and prejudice of the people living in the White South Side. However, I understood and could sympathize with the working class people on the South Side, too. Remember, these people worked hard their entire lives, saving everything they could, to live in their mostly Polish neighborhoods. They had their own stores and parishes. They were content living their lives in their close knit community. They liked things the way they were. They feared that allowing others, African Americans, to move into their neighborhood would bring lower property values, loss of property and perhaps violence.

Matt: Did it affect you personally? What happened and how did you feel about it?

Lindy: There are a couple of instances that I can remember, other than trying to take my exams during the riots, that affected me. I was in Milwaukee for the teacher’s convention with some of my fellow teachers from Mukwanago High School. We were driving on 3rd Street when we happened upon one of Father Groppi’s marches. There were four of us in the car. Myself and another female teacher, also a good friend, hopped out of the car and decided to walk along with the marchers for a few blocks. As usual, they were heading South. I remember being welcomed into the crowd. It was a friendly, cordial, atmosphere. Most likely because we were still North of the Menomonee Valley. We walked along for awhile, then said goodbye and good luck. I felt inspired. These were people with a morally correct cause. They had incredible courage to continue these marches into an area where they were definitely not wanted.

The other time that I can remember was while attending Sunday Mass at St. John’s Cathedral, downtown Milwaukee. I recall the priest addressing Father Groppi and the open-housing issue during his sermon. The priest accused those against open-housing as guilty of greed. He chastised them for being more concerned about their property than basic human rights. He said that they were guilty of greed. All of a sudden, a man got up an stormed out of the church slamming the door behind him. There was a strange silence in the church. You could feel the tension, but no one changed expression. We all sat quietly until the priest began to speak again.

Matt: As a Catholic, what did you feel about the Church’s reaction to the situation?

Lindy: Having grown up in a Catholic home and a product of a Catholic education, I was taught social justice. My Catholic education enriched my life and gave me a deep understanding and compassion for my fellow man. I was waiting for the church to make a statement, to take a stand. I was proud of Archbishop Cousins decision not to discipline Father Groppi in any way. Although, I do remember the Archbishop remarking that he was in favor of Father Groppi’s intentions but not his methods. I do remember how the Archbishop was pressured. In the end, he did the right thing by deciding against discipline. Father Groppi was merely bringing the plight of his parishioners at St. Boniface to the attention of the rest of the city. His intentions were honorable and his methods were non-violent. The violence did not come from the marchers. The marches were staged to prove a point - it was in-you-face, as it had to be. Father Groppi wanted to change minds and laws. No letter to the editor was going to get that accomplished.

Matt: You were a high school History teacher during this time. How did you handle the events with your students. What were their feelings?

Lindy: Matt, that’s a great question. I made clear my feelings to my students. I was not impartial, and was very up-front with where I stood - as did they. Many of my students were Milwaukee transplants to the Mukwanago area. These kids were opposed to what was happening in the city. We had a free exchange of ideas that sometimes got heated. But, that was alright. We were having very healthy discussions. I’m not sure I ever changed any of their minds, and I know they didn’t change mine. However, we all had a better understanding of each other’s views. What did they get out of it? I think they learned about freedom of speech - a lesson that, in my classroom, students were free to say what they felt without fear of their grade being affected by it. This was an important time in our nation and in our city. My students came away from our discussions, hopefully, with a better understanding of the issues at hand. At no time were there repercussions from our discussions. I never heard from parents or school administrators. I’d say that was a success!

Matt: That’s all I have for you. Thank you very much! Lindy: You’re welcome!